Triggernometry hosts Konstantin Kisin and Francis Foster sit down with Dr. Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation, to discuss the ideas behind Project 2025 and its relationship with the Trump administration. Roberts, a passionate conservative, defends the Heritage Foundation’s vision while addressing concerns about overreach, due process, and the radicalization of young men.

Dismantling the Administrative State

A major theme of Project 2025 is the push to shrink the federal government, which both the Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025 and the Trump administration see as bloated and overreaching. Roberts explains that the “administrative state”—the web of unelected bureaucrats and agencies—has grown too powerful, making laws and rules that should come from Congress. He argues that these unelected officials takes freedom away from everyday Americans, pointing to the federal government’s 2.5 million employees and massive spending as evidence. He brings up the Department of Education as an example. It was created in 1979, and since then has been granted trillions in spending, only 25% of which reach classrooms. The results have been poor, he says, the U.S. has a 79% literacy rate compared to the UK’s 99%, for example. The goal, Roberts says, isn’t to destroy government but to “rightsize” it, sending power back to states and local communities. He acknowledges concerns from the center-left that conservatives might just want to grab power for themselves but insists the focus is on self-governance, not control. Getting that last part is really important if the Republicans are to stay in power.

Restoring the American Dream

Roberts believes that the number one goal of the Trump team is to bring back the American Dream, which he sees as the belief that anyone can succeed through hard work and opportunity, no matter their background. He’s worried that many Americans, across political lines, feel this dream is dead. Economic struggles, like sky-high housing costs and inflation, make it tough for even well-educated couples to buy homes. Roberts ties this to government overreach and globalization. Trump’s focus on re-industrialization, cutting government spending, and using tariffs to bring jobs back are all supported by Heritage. He believes these steps, like revitalizing steel production or reforming housing rules, can rebuild prosperity and hope. When pressed, he did admit that it’s a long game. Navigating this process could cause trouble at the mid-terms for Republicans.

Immigration Reform

The Heritage Foundation wants to drastically cut immigration for a year or two, arguing the U.S. has hit a record high of non-native-born residents and needs time to “absorb” newcomers. Roberts says unchecked immigration, especially illegal, strains communities and undermines the American Dream by flooding job markets and stressing social cohesion. He supports Trump’s aggressive deportations of criminals (like Venezuelan gang members) but pushes for pausing even legal immigration, which puts him at odds with this reviewer and business leaders. Still, he suggests a state-based guest worker program, like the old Bracero model, to balance needs in places like California or Texas where workers are needed. Kissin raises concerns about due process tied to the deportation of criminal aliens, citing a story of a wrongly deported barber. Roberts dismissed the story as unverified, insisting the focus should be on the 300,000 criminal immigrants. We thought this felt pretty disingenuous…the story has been everywhere. When pushed, he agrees due process matters. We hope so.

Social and Cultural Issues

The conversation gets heated on social issues like abortion and pornography, where Roberts clarifies Heritage’s stance. Project 2025 pushes for restricting abortion (ideally to six weeks, as in Florida) and limiting kids’ access to porn, but Roberts insists these aren’t just religious crusades. He grounds them in “natural law”—a shared sense of right and wrong—backed by data showing harm, like the health risks of abortion pills or porn’s impact on young minds. While Heritage dreams of a no-abortion America, Roberts admits this is a “hundred-year project” about changing hearts, not federal bans, since Trump leaves abortion to states post-Dobbs. The sees the left’s passion for abortion as a quasi-religious belief in hyper-individualism, tied to declining religiosity, but believes cultural shifts, not laws, will resolve these divides. The issue that never goes away, never goes away. Read into this what you will.

Foreign Policy and Global Role

On foreign policy, Roberts describes Heritage as “owls”—neither war-hungry hawks nor isolationist doves but wise pragmatists. He claims that this matches Trump’s America First approach, focusing on domestic priorities and selective global engagement. They reject neoconservative adventures, like endless wars, and prioritize countering China over conflicts like Ukraine. Roberts calls Putin’s invasion of Ukraine “absurd and tragic” but argues the war was unwinnable, and Europe’s hypocrisy (e.g., buying Russian gas) undercuts their pleas for U.S. aid. Heritage supports Trump’s peace-through-strength mantra, believing his return has already nudged Putin toward peace talks. Heritage seems on the right track here.

Radicalization and Political Polarization

The trio discuss the growing anger among young men, who feel robbed of the American Dream and many want to “burn it all down.” Roberts empathizes with their frustration—many can’t afford homes or feel betrayed by elites—but says Heritage is pushing patience and economic wins to cool tempers. On the left, Roberts predicts short-term violence from radical fringes, like Tesla burnings or calls for “war,” but believes this will backfire, boosting Trump’s appeal as a “normal” fixer. He hopes the center-left rebuilds with a positive vision, like the American Dream and can come to the table to work with Republicans.

Challenges and Communication

The biggest hurdle, Roberts says, is communication. Trump’s reforms—tariffs, deportations, agency cuts—are popular now, but conservatives often forget to keep explaining why they matter. Without clear messaging, bold changes can look like chaos, especially with a hostile media spinning stories. Roberts worries short-term disruptions, like tariff-driven market wiggles, could turn people off if not framed as steps toward prosperity. He praises Trump’s knack for rallying his base but urges broader outreach to show how reforms benefit everyone, not just conservatives. .

Conclusion

This Triggernometry episode with Kevin Roberts is a deep dive into the conservative playbook for America’s future. From slashing the federal government to reviving the American Dream, tightening immigration, and navigating cultural divides, Roberts lays out a vision that’s largely in sync with Trump’s agenda. We have to admit, this wasn’t a super motivational and inspiring listen, but that’s maybe because it was steeped in policy and macro policy justification. There wasn’t a lot that was new in this discussion. Listen if you need an overview or care about the Heritage Foundation.

THE PODSCORE 2.5 (out of 5) MICS

Kisin and Foster sit with Jim Rickards, an American lawyer, investment banker, and author of "Money GPT," who shares insights on the current economic landscape and crazy stock market moves. He discusses the signs indicating a potential recession and examines how tariffs can influence domestic production and inflation. The conversation touches on the geopolitical dynamics in Ukraine, the challenges of U.S. manufacturing, and the implications of energy policies on European independence. Rickards also highlights the critical relationship between debt ratios and economic sustainability, prompting listeners to rethink conventional economic narratives and giving us a well-rounded view perspective on what the Trump economic macro-plan may be.

Are We in a Recession?

Rickards kicks things off by saying the U.S. is probably already in a recession, even if the official scorekeepers (a group of brainy economists at the National Bureau of Economic Research) won’t call it for months. He points to real-time signs: the Atlanta Fed’s GDP tracker tanked from +2.4% to -2.7% in days, partly because importers rushed goods in before Trump’s tariffs hit, bloating the trade deficit. Hiring’s been dead for six months, and layoffs are creeping up—think big companies like tech firms slashing jobs. He also marinates on current the yield curve (a graph of interest rates over time), explaining how it flipped upside down a year and a half ago, signaling recession, and now it’s flattening as rates drop—not because things are great, but because the economy’s sick.

Trump’s Tariffs: Genius or Chaos?

Rickards is all-in on Trump’s tariffs, calling them the best economic move imaginable for America. He traces the idea back to Alexander Hamilton, who used tariffs in 1790 to fund the government and shield U.S. industries. Trump’s plan—slapping 20% or more on imports from China, Canada, even Vietnam—is about bringing factories home and creating new revenue streams. Rickards argues consumers won’t feel the pinch; importers or foreign producers (like Chinese manufacturers) will eat the cost, not us because inflation is tapped out. He cites examples: Taiwan Semiconductor’s $100 billion U.S. investment, Honda’s new plants, Apple shifting $500 billion stateside. When the hosts worry about other countries suffering, he shrugs, “That’s their problem—our job is to make America great.” He sees it as a long game to rebuild manufacturing, not a quick fix.

Will Tariffs Spark Inflation or War with China?

The hosts grill Rickards on downsides: won’t forcing production back to the U.S. jack up prices since American workers earn more? He fires back—nope, U.S. workers are productive, and with lower shipping and energy costs (thanks to “drill, baby, drill”), it balances out. He dismisses the “tariffs are a sales tax” line as bunk, saying Walmart can’t hike prices 20% because people are tapped out—credit cards maxed, inflation still biting. On China retaliating, maybe invading Taiwan, Rickards isn’t fazed. He says China’s too dependent on U.S. markets to hit back hard—they shifted soybean buys to Brazil in 2018, and we just sold to Europe. Taiwan’s a risk, but he thinks China’s more likely to negotiate than fight, especially with their economy wobbling.

Ukraine: A U.S.-Fueled Disaster?

Things get heated when Ukraine comes up. Rickards calls it a “world historic blunder,” blaming the U.S. for provoking Russia since 2008 with NATO expansion talk. He claims Biden wanted the war to topple Putin, citing a 2014 coup (backed by the CIA and MI6) that ousted a pro-Russian leader. He’s brutal on the fallout: 700,000 to a million dead Ukrainians, a generation wiped out, and Western weapons—like Patriot missiles and Abrams tanks—failing against Russian tech. Konstantin’s pushes back hard, as his family are Russian-speaking Ukrainians who hate Putin’s invasion, and they argue Zelensky’s (a Jew) is no Nazi dictator. Rickards doubles down, saying Zelensky’s term expired in 2024, making him a “military dictator,” and predicts Ukraine might split east-west. He says low oil prices ($30 a barrel) could end it fast by choking Russia’s cash, on this last point Foster and Kisin agreed.

America as World Cop: Done or Just Resting?

Rickards questions America’s role as global policeman, arguing Ukraine’s exposed our weaknesses—our fancy weapons don’t work, and Europe’s out of ammo (no 155mm shells left). He ties this to tariffs, saying it’s time to focus on ourselves, not policing others. But Francis raises Iran: if the U.S. steps back, who stops a nuclear-armed Tehran? Rickards says Israel and Trump’s “maximum pressure” sanctions have neutered Iran’s air defenses and cash flow—Biden’s handouts reversed that, but Trump’s back to squeeze them again. Its hard to know if Rickards has credentials in this area, as his Ukraine Nazi opinions were a bit credibility defying but none-the-less it does seem to reason that the US should learn from the past 30 years and avoid unnecessary conflict.

Economic Outlook: Pain Now, Gain Later

Wrapping up economics, Rickards predicts a rough 2025—Biden’s “Inflation Reduction Act” (a $900 billion “Green New Scam” he says fueled inflation) left a hangover. Layoffs, supply chain hiccups from tariffs, and dropping rates (a recession sign, not a boost) mean short-term pain. But he’s bullish long-term: by 2026, tariff-driven jobs and Scott Bessent’s “333 plan” (3% deficit, 3% growth, 3 million more oil barrels) could spark a Reagan-style rebound—think 16% growth post-1982. He, like others, primarily point to debt-to-GDP (125% now, way too high), as the key sign of US fiscal health. He believes that getting that down is Trump’s goal.

Conclusion

Jim Rickards talks fast, speak assuredly and preaches the gospel of Trump, but not always convicingly. He is relatively sure the the U.S. is in a recession, but sees Trump’s tariffs as the start of an economic reordering that will benefit the US over the medium to long term. He also sees them as necessary given the plight of the middle class and our debt. We were less impressed with his views on geopolitics, but none-the-less he articulately explains the economic theory of the Trump administration, assuming that his take on inflation is correct.

THE PODSCORE: 3 (out of 5) MICS

The Triggernometry duo hosts Mike Benz, a political commentator and former State Department official who has been warning of the “blob” and dissecting USAID in detail recently, offers intriguing insights on the Epstein / JFK files and their implications for government transparency. We’ve covered Benz a lot and he always delivers. What’s great about this (relatively) short Trigger discussion is that they focus primarily on Epstein. With any luck those are the next batch of files to be released now that the JFK files have finally dropped. The trio delves into Jeffrey Epstein’s enigmatic connections with the elite, questioning official narratives surrounding his life and death.

JFK Files and Intelligence Implications:

The podcast opens with speculation about the long-awaited release of files related to John F. Kennedy’s assassination. This episode was actually recorded the day they dropped, so no new information per se, but some speculation and context if you haven’t been up-to-speed. Benz suggests that these documents could implicate U.S. intelligence services, potentially revealing their involvement in the event. Such a disclosure, he argues, would test the Trump administration’s commitment to transparency and could damage America’s diplomatic credibility if it exposed unsavory truths about its national security apparatus. He makes the same point about the Epstein files. Of course, we now know the JFK files only further rounded edges on what we already know…there was / is a lot more to the story.

Jeffrey Epstein’s Role and Connections:

The conversation shifts to Jeffrey Epstein, portrayed not just as a blackmailer but as a possible "access agent" linking powerful individuals to intelligence networks. Benz posits that Epstein’s value lay in his ability to facilitate connections rather than solely extort, tying him to broader intelligence operations. This was a key point, the broader conspiracy narrative that has emerged seems to place Epstein purely as a blackmail agent. Benz convincingly conveys that such a characterization is way to simple and unlikely. The reluctance to release his files, Benz notes, stems from national security concerns and the risk of exposing sensitive alliances with nations like the UK, Israel, and Saudi Arabia within frameworks like the Five Eyes coalition. With international connections from the UK to Israel to South America and beyond, any unexpected Epstein news will have global implications. Stay tuned.

“There’s a question of how much smoke do you need to have before you just come out and say, there’s a dang fire.” - Mike Benz on Epstein

Intelligence Agencies and Statecraft:

A central theme is the role of intelligence agencies in statecraft, often operating through informal and illicit channels. Benz explains how these agencies leverage figures like Epstein or Hunter Biden—individuals with controversial backgrounds—because their "dirty hands" lend credibility in navigating underworld networks. This approach, he suggests, has been used to destabilize foreign regimes or broker clandestine deals, such as those in the Iran-Contra affair, blurring the lines between legitimate governance and covert manipulation.

Unions, Organized Crime, and Power Structures:

The podcast delves into the under-explored nexus of unions, organized crime, and statecraft. Benz highlights how unions have historically served as tools for both domestic control and international influence operations, often with state sanction. This entanglement illustrates how formal and informal power structures collaborate to achieve geopolitical goals, a dynamic he believes warrants greater scrutiny.

Cultural Fascination with Conspiracy Theories:

Finally, the discussion reflects on America’s appetite for conspiracy theories, which Benz ties to a growing public awareness of intelligence agencies’ secretive actions—sometimes against their own citizens. This fascination, he argues, is a response to decades of operations shrouded in plausible deniability, fueling both curiosity and distrust in government institutions. However, more recently he (and others) have claimed that when the blob starts to work against the American people (2016 election, COVID, Jan 6th, BLM possibly) then reforms are required. He believes that is where we are right now.

Conclusion:

The Triggernometry episode with Mike Benz paints a picture of a world where transparency struggles against entrenched secrecy, and the boundaries between governance and covert influence are perilously thin. We think the discussion leaves listeners pondering a critical question—how much of this shadowy machinery should be unveiled, and what might be the cost to America’s global standing and domestic trust? Benz has been talking about this balance for a while and the Epstein files represent only the latest challenge to this question. Even for Benz junkies, getting his fresh take on Epstein is worthwhile.

THE PODSCORE: 4 (of 5) MICS

Triggernometry welcomes Boris Johnson, former UK Prime Minister. The group delves into the intricacies of Boris’s conversations with Vladimir Putin, revealing the serious stakes of global diplomacy. He reflects on the motivations behind Russia's invasion of Ukraine and discusses the critical support needed from the West. Johnson critiques media perceptions of Ukrainian leadership and examines the complex relationship between the UK and Russia, touching on historical events like the Salisbury poisoning. The discussion also encompasses energy policies, privacy concerns, and the evolving dynamics of immigration post-Brexit.

Support for Ukraine Against Russian Aggression:

One of the most prominent themes is Boris Johnson’s unwavering support for Ukraine following Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022. Johnson articulates a deep sense of moral outrage and personal responsibility as a leader of a G7 nation, unable to deter Putin’s actions. He recounts his efforts to supply Ukraine with weapons, such as NLAWs, starting in late 2021, driven by intelligence suggesting an imminent invasion. Johnson dismisses Kremlin narratives, such as the claim that he sabotaged peace talks in Istanbul, emphasizing that Ukraine’s resistance was a sovereign choice supported by the West. He also reflects on his “incredibly depressing” conversation with Putin, where the Russian leader fixated on NATO expansion despite no realistic prospect of Ukraine’s membership. This theme underscores Johnson’s belief in standing firm against aggression through strength and solidarity.

We'd been unable to to persuade Putin not to do something so completely self-destructive and and clearly destructive of of Ukraine and it was enraging and um I I was disgusted at at what he was doing!” - Boris Johnson

Brexit and Immigration Control

The podcast extensively covers Brexit, a defining achievement of Johnson’s premiership, with a focus on its implications for immigration control. Johnson argues that Brexit was fundamentally about “taking back control,” particularly over borders, in response to public frustration with unprecedented immigration levels under previous governments. He acknowledges the “Boris wave” of immigration post-2019, attributing it to exceptional circumstances like COVID-19, the return of EU nationals, and humanitarian intakes from Ukraine, Afghanistan, and Hong Kong. However, he defends the Rwanda deportation plan as a solution to illegal Channel crossings, lamenting its derailment by legal challenges and insufficient time.

Evolution on Climate Change and Net Zero

Johnson’s shift from climate skepticism to advocating for net zero policies and now back to a more moderate view raised our eyebrows a bit. Initially critical of the “religiosity” and perceived socialist undertones of environmentalism—once writing that wind power couldn’t “pull the skin off a rice pudding”—he describes an intuitive awakening during his time as Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary. Observing global population growth and environmental degradation from the air, he adopted a Pascal’s Wager approach: acting on climate change is prudent even if the science is uncertain. He admits to policy missteps, like insufficient nuclear investment and high energy costs, but insists that cleaner technology is a long-term necessity, balanced against economic and security trade-offs. In general, we think he seemed to appease the Triggernometry audience by admitting steel needs its own set of regulation and that net - zero has gone too far in general. We aren’t so sure he believes that.

Challenges of Governance and Decision-Making

Underpinning these topics is Johnson’s reflection on the difficulties of governing, a recurring theme throughout the podcast. He discusses the resistance to provocative actions—like arming Ukraine—due to fears of escalation, and the legal “lawfare” that thwarted the Rwanda deportation plan. Johnson also praises cost-cutting boldness, inspired by Elon Musk, while noting the emotional and political obstacles to axing legacy projects.

Conclusion

This is the first Triggernometry episode we have reviewed. Boris Johnson illuminates the multifaceted challenges he navigated as a leader, from rallying support for Ukraine against Russian aggression to wrestling with Brexit’s immigration promises and reconciling skepticism with climate action. One key point we cannot reconcile is did he really tell the Ukrainians not to accept peace in 2022 or did not. Clearly, here he says he did not push for war, but the verdict still seems to be out. So, we think you can be skeptical of some of what Johnson says, but its a good , quick listen.

THE PODSCORE: 4 (of 5) MICS.